Does it matter? There's nothing unrealistic about it - not every male in real life matches up to our society's so-called perception of "masculine", and this should be even less of a consideration for a fantasy genre. If it's not what someone is looking for, as with any other image, there are plenty of other images on the site to choose from.
I like the way this was done in games like Baldur's Gate - although real time, you could pause at anytime to issue orders, and there was an auto-pause that meant the game would pause at the end of every "turn". So it had the advantages that turn-based systems had, without really changing the nature of the real-time game. It's also much easier to implement when you have a real-time game.
I think a true turn based game (where everyone takes a move in turn) is a much more significant change, and there's a risk of losing the playability. I did try this with a game I was writing a few years ago, but the pace just seemed very slow - you move, but then you have to wait while every enemy has to move in turn. It works okay for things like strategy games, but less so when it's something where you expect things to behave more like real life.
It works okay for Rogue-likes because the movement is instant, so a turn-based game is still fast moving, and can be played similar to real-time anyway, but this doesn't happen if you have a game with animation.
I think there are two ways of looking at the alleged problem:
1. There is too much "useless" material, that makes it harder to find the good stuff.
2. There isn't enough good stuff.
It's unclear to me which the OP was getting at more. Quality control would help with (1), but I agree with others that this would be a bad idea (too much a matter of opinion what's useful or not, and better to solve the issue with better search, and we already have Collections). It wouldn't solve (2) anyway.
I would disagree that there's hardly any good stuff - I've found plenty of useful images for things like textures and 2D static images. One thing I have trouble finding is animations - a lot of the time I see images intended to be a character in a game, but it's only a static image, and therefore useless for most genres of games. But ultimately I suspect the problem is that creating such game art is hard, and there aren't enough people willing to do it for free.
"If I make a bad game, no one cares if it's for free. Even free mobile games are criticised by their users no matter they are for free or not."
Though this isn't an end user site, it's a developer site. Not to say there shouldn't be criticism, but hopefully of a more constructive kind. On the one hand, yes, if I have some barely started scrap of a game, I wouldn't dream of releasing it, even as Free and Open Source. But on the other hand, I think the analogy would be someone uploading some code of a demo to somewhere like Sourceforge - not as a game for end users, but as code for someone to potentially make use of.
I've now added the graphics to the Git repository (I haven't done the sound/music yet, as these are less essential to keep in sync).
Reading various places where people ask the question, there doesn't seem to be a good answer or consensus regarding binaries and source control. As makrohn says, the size can grow large, because every modification requires a new copy of the file to be kept. A lot of advantages of source control (like merging diffs) don't apply to binaries. The options seem to be:
1. Simply include the binaries.
2. Include them in a subfolder, which has its own separate Git repository (possibly managed using Git Submodule).
3. Use one of various ports/add-ons that are meant to be better at handling binaries (e.g., bup, git-bigfiles git annex).
I rejected 3 as I don't want to be dependent on something more obscure, and possibly not available for some platforms (e.g., git annex isn't available for Windows).
I was tempted to go for 2 - but I figured the total size would still end up being the same, and it would mean more hassle. One advantage would be that I could always revert if it caused problems.
So I've gone with 1 - the data I have isn't that large and shouldn't change too much, so hopefully it won't be a problem.
Although I'm using Git, I'm using Sourceforge rather than Github, and I don't know if Sourceforge has something similar for binaries(?) (I mean, I know I can upload separate files with the binaries, which is what I was doing previously, but it's harder to keep that in sync.)
I'm not sure if Git will overwrite the local files - when I tested, it didn't seem to, so it may be better to rename/delete your local gfx/ folder to be sure. (To ensure it works, the gfx/textures/wall.png image should now be 256x256 instead of 128x128.)
I thought I should comment as the author :) Thanks for the plug, and your helpful comments in email to me. And also many thanks to Clint Bellanger and other FLARE contributors, which as noted have provided a significant amount of the graphics, especially for animations (as I'm sure plenty of you know, finding a good set of consistent animated sprites to use in a game is far harder than static images). I should add that it is intended to be an original game in its own right - other than also being an RPG of course :) (See http://erebusrpg.sourceforge.net/#licences for full list of licences/sources - many of the others have been sourced from Open Game Art.)
It's in its early stages so far, though demonstrates some gameplay with a couple of quests.
I've just released version 0.4 (Windows binary, and source for Linux).
About the repo - yes, I think I'll add the binary data into the Git repository soon. The question of how to handle large binary files in Git isn't one that seems clear to me (do others here have any opinions?), but it's probably best to keep it altogether.
"FLAC remains a little lossy (why is there a slider from 1 to 10 if its lossless?). ... But, it is also lossy, just less. So please stop saying it is lossless, that is just not true."
Everything I've read about FLAC says that it's lossless - do you have a reference for it being lossy? What is the "slider"?
"I also want to point out a 200 MB file isn't much anymore... Even a 500 MB file. We all have crazy fast connections now, even on our damned phones, so why the hate for an uncompressed format?"
One possible issue is for hosting, if there are space or transfer limits or costs(?)
With phones it's not so much a question of how fast the connection is, but download limits - 500MB is a common monthly allowance :) Although I agree this isn't necessarily a huge point, if I was worried about the download size, I'd just download the ogg or mp3 anyway.
Regarding the hassle of conversion, i think that works both ways - if ogg isn't an option, then developers wanting that will have to convert. Though i wouldn't object if both mp3 and ogg were available. And yes, there is the consideration of whether some users wouldn't even be able to play the files just to listen to them.
Providing wav in a zip seems fine to me too, as long as there's also a lossy format one can use to preview/stream the music. I don't know how the size compares to flac though.
If one wants to do editing/processing of a file, then I'd say that's all the more reason to have it in a non-lossy format. If FLAC isn't supported, I agree that you can convert via something like Audacity - and whilst that's an extra step, it seems better than hosting as WAVs (which will mean larger sizes, longer downloads - although wavs would seem fine for short sound samples).
I agree with preferring OGG over MP3 (or FLAC so it can be converted to OGG without extra loss) - many open source game developers will need OGG due to the patent issues, as has been said.
From http://www.desura.com/terms-of-use : "In particular, Desura may use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the Content and other works which are based on them (including by way of adaptation or derivative works) in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you"
The problematic point seems the right to create derivatie works, without any indication of adhering to the licences - e.g., this would be incompatible with any use of CC BY, since they could create a derivative work that used a CC BY material, and not give attribution.
Possibly I've misread this, and this is only talking about other kinds of content - in which case, do you have a URL to the terms for anything distributed through Desura?
As it happens I can across this site the other day, there's a lot of good graphics there. A problem though is the licence - it doesn't have a standard one, and it's not clear how compatible this would be with Free/Open Source distribution? It allows commercial and non-commercial use, but there's the clause about how the graphics can't be redistributed elsewhere on their own. It would be fine for use when distributing a game, but might cause a problem for some Linux distribution systems, e.g., the Debian Free Software Guidelines (and the graphics couldn't be uploaded to this site)?
I don't know how people have dealt with these kinds of licences when it comes to making open source games ... I guess another option is to ask the guy if he'd be open to relicensing under say CC BY or CC BY-SA, but that would mean persuading him to allow redistribution of the graphics on other sites.
The licence CC Sampling Plus ( http://creativecommons.org/licenses/sampling+/1.0/ ) would allow basically what he is asking - but this is I believe considered non-Free for these reasons, and indeed CC have now retired it due to incompatibility problems.
Does it matter? There's nothing unrealistic about it - not every male in real life matches up to our society's so-called perception of "masculine", and this should be even less of a consideration for a fantasy genre. If it's not what someone is looking for, as with any other image, there are plenty of other images on the site to choose from.
I like the way this was done in games like Baldur's Gate - although real time, you could pause at anytime to issue orders, and there was an auto-pause that meant the game would pause at the end of every "turn". So it had the advantages that turn-based systems had, without really changing the nature of the real-time game. It's also much easier to implement when you have a real-time game.
I think a true turn based game (where everyone takes a move in turn) is a much more significant change, and there's a risk of losing the playability. I did try this with a game I was writing a few years ago, but the pace just seemed very slow - you move, but then you have to wait while every enemy has to move in turn. It works okay for things like strategy games, but less so when it's something where you expect things to behave more like real life.
It works okay for Rogue-likes because the movement is instant, so a turn-based game is still fast moving, and can be played similar to real-time anyway, but this doesn't happen if you have a game with animation.
I think there are two ways of looking at the alleged problem:
1. There is too much "useless" material, that makes it harder to find the good stuff.
2. There isn't enough good stuff.
It's unclear to me which the OP was getting at more. Quality control would help with (1), but I agree with others that this would be a bad idea (too much a matter of opinion what's useful or not, and better to solve the issue with better search, and we already have Collections). It wouldn't solve (2) anyway.
I would disagree that there's hardly any good stuff - I've found plenty of useful images for things like textures and 2D static images. One thing I have trouble finding is animations - a lot of the time I see images intended to be a character in a game, but it's only a static image, and therefore useless for most genres of games. But ultimately I suspect the problem is that creating such game art is hard, and there aren't enough people willing to do it for free.
"If I make a bad game, no one cares if it's for free. Even free mobile games are criticised by their users no matter they are for free or not."
Though this isn't an end user site, it's a developer site. Not to say there shouldn't be criticism, but hopefully of a more constructive kind. On the one hand, yes, if I have some barely started scrap of a game, I wouldn't dream of releasing it, even as Free and Open Source. But on the other hand, I think the analogy would be someone uploading some code of a demo to somewhere like Sourceforge - not as a game for end users, but as code for someone to potentially make use of.
I've now added the graphics to the Git repository (I haven't done the sound/music yet, as these are less essential to keep in sync).
Reading various places where people ask the question, there doesn't seem to be a good answer or consensus regarding binaries and source control. As makrohn says, the size can grow large, because every modification requires a new copy of the file to be kept. A lot of advantages of source control (like merging diffs) don't apply to binaries. The options seem to be:
1. Simply include the binaries.
2. Include them in a subfolder, which has its own separate Git repository (possibly managed using Git Submodule).
3. Use one of various ports/add-ons that are meant to be better at handling binaries (e.g., bup, git-bigfiles git annex).
I rejected 3 as I don't want to be dependent on something more obscure, and possibly not available for some platforms (e.g., git annex isn't available for Windows).
I was tempted to go for 2 - but I figured the total size would still end up being the same, and it would mean more hassle. One advantage would be that I could always revert if it caused problems.
So I've gone with 1 - the data I have isn't that large and shouldn't change too much, so hopefully it won't be a problem.
Although I'm using Git, I'm using Sourceforge rather than Github, and I don't know if Sourceforge has something similar for binaries(?) (I mean, I know I can upload separate files with the binaries, which is what I was doing previously, but it's harder to keep that in sync.)
I'm not sure if Git will overwrite the local files - when I tested, it didn't seem to, so it may be better to rename/delete your local gfx/ folder to be sure. (To ensure it works, the gfx/textures/wall.png image should now be 256x256 instead of 128x128.)
Hi,
I thought I should comment as the author :) Thanks for the plug, and your helpful comments in email to me. And also many thanks to Clint Bellanger and other FLARE contributors, which as noted have provided a significant amount of the graphics, especially for animations (as I'm sure plenty of you know, finding a good set of consistent animated sprites to use in a game is far harder than static images). I should add that it is intended to be an original game in its own right - other than also being an RPG of course :) (See http://erebusrpg.sourceforge.net/#licences for full list of licences/sources - many of the others have been sourced from Open Game Art.)
It's in its early stages so far, though demonstrates some gameplay with a couple of quests.
I've just released version 0.4 (Windows binary, and source for Linux).
About the repo - yes, I think I'll add the binary data into the Git repository soon. The question of how to handle large binary files in Git isn't one that seems clear to me (do others here have any opinions?), but it's probably best to keep it altogether.
mark
"FLAC remains a little lossy (why is there a slider from 1 to 10 if its lossless?). ... But, it is also lossy, just less. So please stop saying it is lossless, that is just not true."
Everything I've read about FLAC says that it's lossless - do you have a reference for it being lossy? What is the "slider"?
"I also want to point out a 200 MB file isn't much anymore... Even a 500 MB file. We all have crazy fast connections now, even on our damned phones, so why the hate for an uncompressed format?"
One possible issue is for hosting, if there are space or transfer limits or costs(?)
With phones it's not so much a question of how fast the connection is, but download limits - 500MB is a common monthly allowance :) Although I agree this isn't necessarily a huge point, if I was worried about the download size, I'd just download the ogg or mp3 anyway.
Regarding the hassle of conversion, i think that works both ways - if ogg isn't an option, then developers wanting that will have to convert. Though i wouldn't object if both mp3 and ogg were available. And yes, there is the consideration of whether some users wouldn't even be able to play the files just to listen to them.
Providing wav in a zip seems fine to me too, as long as there's also a lossy format one can use to preview/stream the music. I don't know how the size compares to flac though.
If one wants to do editing/processing of a file, then I'd say that's all the more reason to have it in a non-lossy format. If FLAC isn't supported, I agree that you can convert via something like Audacity - and whilst that's an extra step, it seems better than hosting as WAVs (which will mean larger sizes, longer downloads - although wavs would seem fine for short sound samples).
I agree with preferring OGG over MP3 (or FLAC so it can be converted to OGG without extra loss) - many open source game developers will need OGG due to the patent issues, as has been said.
ETA: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/audiostudio/techspec lists OGG and FLAV for import/export - though don't know if I'm looking at the wrong program.
From http://www.desura.com/terms-of-use : "In particular, Desura may use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the Content and other works which are based on them (including by way of adaptation or derivative works) in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you"
The problematic point seems the right to create derivatie works, without any indication of adhering to the licences - e.g., this would be incompatible with any use of CC BY, since they could create a derivative work that used a CC BY material, and not give attribution.
Possibly I've misread this, and this is only talking about other kinds of content - in which case, do you have a URL to the terms for anything distributed through Desura?
As it happens I can across this site the other day, there's a lot of good graphics there. A problem though is the licence - it doesn't have a standard one, and it's not clear how compatible this would be with Free/Open Source distribution? It allows commercial and non-commercial use, but there's the clause about how the graphics can't be redistributed elsewhere on their own. It would be fine for use when distributing a game, but might cause a problem for some Linux distribution systems, e.g., the Debian Free Software Guidelines (and the graphics couldn't be uploaded to this site)?
I don't know how people have dealt with these kinds of licences when it comes to making open source games ... I guess another option is to ask the guy if he'd be open to relicensing under say CC BY or CC BY-SA, but that would mean persuading him to allow redistribution of the graphics on other sites.
The licence CC Sampling Plus ( http://creativecommons.org/licenses/sampling+/1.0/ ) would allow basically what he is asking - but this is I believe considered non-Free for these reasons, and indeed CC have now retired it due to incompatibility problems.
Other relevant discussions:
http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=394
http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2007/05/msg00092.html
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