Well met, the new animations are a good idea and I'd prefer that solution. Yet I am currently unskillful in the needed animation skills to do this properly myself. Also I am not sure who has the talent and the desire to create new animations for both the male and female Flare player character avatar sprites. Even if the animations were made I am sure that itemization optimizations could be found; yet collectively we as a community currently lack the animation set(s) for dual wielding.
I am currently hoping in the near future (with aid from Danimal) to have a stop-gap 'version 1' of dual wielding with ~'sword and board' / one-handed weapon + shield preexisting animations to get the dual wielding system off the ground. Yet I feel that this could be improved if there were dedicated dual wielding animations for Flare. I wish for dual wielding play-style to exist in Flare. Yet what I wonder what options we have to make this desire work and manifest into reality?
I suppose that leaves us with the natural question that arises from that we both agree on new dual wielding animations being valuable for Flare; but now the focus shifts to how to make new animations for Flare? Danimal knows how to make new animations (as evidenced in his work) and I hope that I can learn in the future to help out myself as well. Additionally I feel that the more creative expertise that is shared with the community the better the community becomes and more can be improved upon with Flare :-).
https://www.youtube.com/user/larsandersen23/videos Lars Andersen is a great embodiment of what light bows can do. Also in the Crusades / middle east-ish there was use of light bows, lots of shots, shorter range but against armour they were not very effective but in the heat it is hard to wear armour in some places so its all connected together.
I am going to have to tinker with bows and arrows and ranged weapons although for now I gave a cool down of 2.0 seconds to the ranged Shoot ability to still enable quick snap shooting, prevent immobilization and weird slow attack animation and red debuff text on all ranged weapons while still simulating reload and the general delay of reloading / getting ready to shoot. Also it is possible to run around and reload kinda so it works like that as well. High mobility possible yet still if you want high slaughter than melee is preferred.
Also I had to go a bit drastic on my armour since I had so many types and so little % places to use (only 100; but really ~70-60 effectively). I increased the base movement speed to 7.5 (up from 6) to still be believable but to mainly compensate how I had to resort to forcing my on paper armour system to work in the confines of whole integer % numbers with regards to speed penalties; as extrapolated below (also I wanted this to be mana regeneration but such an itemization attribute did not exist at the time):
"Armour Classification Ratio: (100 / 15 + None Classification) 0.00000 +/-0% Mana Pool +/-0% Movement Speed - None 0.06667 +/-0% Mana Pool +/-0% Movement Speed - Clothing 0.13333 +/-0% Mana Pool -10% Movement Speed - Light Cloth Armour 0.20000 +/-0% Mana Pool -20% Movement Speed - Medium Cloth Armour 0.26667 +/-0% Mana Pool -30% Movement Speed - Heavy Cloth Armour 0.33333 -1% Mana Pool -40% Movement Speed - Light Leather Armour 0.40000 -2% Mana Pool -40% Movement Speed - Medium Leather Armour 0.46667 -3% Mana Pool -40% Movement Speed - Heavy Leather Armour 0.53333 -4% Mana Pool -50% Movement Speed - Light Mail Armour 0.60000 -5% Mana Pool -50% Movement Speed - Medium Mail Armour 0.66667 -6% Mana Pool -50% Movement Speed - Heavy Mail Armour 0.73333 -7% Mana Pool -60% Movement Speed - Light Plate Armour 0.80000 -8% Mana Pool -60% Movement Speed - Medium Plate Armour 0.86667 -9% Mana Pool -60% Movement Speed - Heavy Plate Armour 0.93333 -10% Mana Pool -70% Movement Speed - Massive Plate Armour 1.00000 -11% Mana Pool -70% Movement Speed - Gargantuan Plate Armour
-Matthew Gordon Roulston 12:51 AM 22st / 08 (August) / 2021" A subsystem of my armour itemization system.
I wish I had fractions of % to use so I can avoid this issue with 10 main armour pieces and only whole number / integers to use per piece of armour of a combined set of 10: "Light/Medium/Heavy Plate Armour
-60% Movement Speed 10 - 12 Torso -6% Movement Speed 9 - 11 Head -6% Movement Speed 8 - 10 Legs -6% Movement Speed 7 - 9 Hands -6% Movement Speed 6 - 8 Shoulders -6% Movement Speed 5 - 6 Waist -6% Movement Speed 4 - 5 Shins -6% Movement Speed 3 - 4 Feet -6% Movement Speed 2 - 3 Wrists -6% Movement Speed 1 - 2 Arms -6% Movement Speed"
I wish that each armour piece can be more close to my original prototype of having the wrist be less slowing than the torso armour but I am limited by whole numbers / integers regards to itemization. I hope in 1.13 I can use fractions of % such a -2.5% Speed or -0.3% Speed or etc. I did a basic rough implementation of my paper armour system into flare but it feels very crude and kinda making due under limitations of whole numbers. When you have many armour types, many armour pieces, whole numbers of 0-100% run out pretty quick XD.
Notice the speed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w8yHeF4KRk that is a warbow (and a crossbow), the warbow is not a practice bow or a light bow but a bow designed specially to kill and win / not lose too badly battles and hopefully wars. Sure light bows can be fast but they lack the power to really do serious damage like a war bow.
True, very true; iterate, iterate, iterate. Ideas are great but everything should be challenged and tested until it breaks to see its strengths and weakens and so that ~'version 2' can be built better via more insight on the errors of the past. Bit by bit, piece by piece :-).
How can ammunition be added in flare is it possible or is it quite clunky? If so is it just one item for say 'arrows'? If ammunition was added I would like it to have the option to have different types (bronze arrows, iron arrows, steel arrows etc.) Also the possibility of magical ammunition such as http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate/ranged.html with say Ice arrows deal extra ~'cold' damage but are limited / more expensive so a player can chose to 'load up' / buff up before a challenging fight to increase their fighting odds. Could this be done with a common ammunition type but it is equip-able like weapons / armour and gives +stats when equipped yet how would you prevent melee / magic / other non-ranged from getting +cold damage when it is only meant for ranged?
Also if expendable ammunition could be made to work the system could lend it self to other weapon types like melee with say flaming oil where every melee attack get extra ~'fire' damage but with limited amounts of attacks / charges. How could this be done? Would each item that adds weapon damage have to be a clone of the base attack ability but with extra related features but with limited stacking uses / 'charges' like kind of like potions and scrolls? Or is there a way to passively add to a select base attack ability (strike, shoot, channel etc.) in a limited use way once an item is equipped? Whereas a player equips say 'Acid Arrows' but there are x87 of them so every shot had added ~'acid' damage but the stack of x87 Acid Arrows is drained by 1 every time / shot? Could there be ~3 quiver slots that are drain in a predictable order such as slot 1, 2 then 3? Could multiple types of 'ammunition' be carried for say Arrows or Bolts and only bows would drain arrows equipped and not the Bolts; even when the bolts are equipped? Could the base ranged shoot ability have infinite arrows (as it currently does)but enhanced arrows are limited?
Could all of this be simplified into abilities and talents and or limited use items (like scrolls and potions) that just grant a buff that is drained with every ranged only or melee only or ranged and melee but not magic etc attacks? Could ~'flaming weapon oil' be made like a potion / scroll but it grants a passive buff to all attacks in dealing extra ~'fire' damage to all attacks but over a limited amount of time across all attacks but on a limited time basis to have it work roughly the same gameplay wise yet to vastly simplify everything mechanically and use existing systems? What kind of mechanic options are there for ammunition / ~'limited expendable weapon power boosters'? - Formal thread for tangent / off-topic question here: https://opengameart.org/forumtopic/expendable-ammunition-limited-use-wea...
I was wondering how to handling weapon speed so attack speed can vary I take it to have 'fast' and 'slow' weapon speeds that can make different say sword types like a Bastard Sword has ~50% Attack Speed verses a Short Sword that has ~75% Attack Speed but the damage can be averaged to make the same Damage Per Second and make both weapon types roughly equal but lend to different play styles? Or does the fact that weapons just give a straight +damage buff kind of ruin that and that could lead to highest weapon speed = best in slot but just buffing damage in potentially other means outside of weapons or would this be prevented by locking in all damage sources and carefully calculating all possible damage calculations and making sure they all average out in the same 'tier' / item level? Or maybe all melee weapons attack at the same speed and damage is all the same; that would work regardless, less depth but it works.
Also I agree on slowing down the attack speeds in Flare. The melee weapons I hope can have attributes like Diablo where some weapons are fast but weak and some are slow but powerful and yet if the all have the same item level (roughly) the have the same Damage per Second. Although if that cannot be properly replicated I can just have all One-Handed and Two-Handed Melee Weapons attack at the same speeds and use the 150/100/50 damage system.
In general it seems that melee should have more damage potential than ranged weapons for there is more risk to the player and a serious risk of being encircled and exposed to serious damage. Whereas ranged attacks are more safe and can be hit and run and this kind of combat should be lessened. The melee poise of enemies should be in the spirit as you suggested to prevent 'machine gun' melee happening. Also ranged attacks in real life do not have to be very fast and most war bows do not draw quickly and the speed in Flare is a bit crazy; also the infinite ammunition is 'okay' but not perfect. Slower attack speed = less damage over time than melee of equal level / 'tier' would force the player to make a choice to kill faster with greater risk or kill slower but with greater safety. This could even be 50% the attack rate of melee one-handed weapons with 50% the damage as well. Also it is unrealistic to shoot so fast without fatigue and fatigue will slow the average rate of attack lower than a quick burst. This quick burst could be trained ranged ability like ~'Rapid Shots' that is a temporary ranged attack speed increase yet I am unsure how to make it only work for ranged attacks and not melee and magic. Also a damage much lower to melee for ranged attacks makes sense in that if you imagine taking a sword and striking a bare body. A properly placed strike from a sword will rend a huge gash in the body whereas a ranged strike leaves a point of damage. The difference is more so over long range where ranged attacks lose energy over distance; whereas melee does not.
Magic should be powerful but potentially the most clunky to use. It cannot be too weak or else it feels kind of pointless like flashy weak attacks and loses the respect as found in most medieval fantasy settings. If it is too powerful and easy to use it ruins the ranged and melee balance. If it is powerful and offering lots of utility / options of employment of its powers to aid the caster that fits with the usual expectations of medieval fantasy settings. If it is a bit clunky to use like long cast times and or some versions using lots of resources / mana and making only a few select costly casts per minute realistic without digging deep into potions and other outside resources this will force the player to use strategy and cunning and planning to win with magic. Powerful, impactful and rarely un-useful a magic spell could be clunky to use over and over in combat yet quite useful if the caster can make the limited casts per minute count; skill verses spam. Yet wands and the such could be used to be the back bone of a magic user to fill a role between melee and ranged. Where wands and such could act almost as a hybrid ranged / melee role. In that they are longer in area of threat / attack range than melee, yet shorter than ranged, less damage than melee, equal and or even greater in damage to ranged, and perhaps equal or potentially slower in attack speed than ranged for potientially less, equal or even greater damage per minute compare to ranged. Yet less than melee in most all areas except area of threat / attack range. To have a cycle develope of using spells to blast a start / buff up then wand the enemies to keep them at bay while the spells recharge and blast more magic at the foes and keep the cycle going.
This is my current set of views regarding with combat and the weapon type / play style rolls moving forward for my R.P.G. prototype at least :-).
Was this ever implemented / added to 1.13 features? I was poking around and looking around and going over some key engine parts I was looking for to see if they implemented / progress tracking and this came up. I noticed that Fractional stat values and Arbitrary definition of resources (e.g. HP and MP) were on the 1.13 list : https://github.com/flareteam/flare-engine/milestone/12 and I noticed that this https://opengameart.org/forumtopic/enemygrouprequireslevel-enemygroupreq... was worked on for 1.13 https://github.com/flareteam/flare-engine/commit/535d35dc47e7d3e4db5772b... although I am not finding anything about hp_regen_percent and mp_regen_percent for 1.13 although I might be not looking in the right spots or if not I hope to ask for more information on this potential feature.
Thank you, no rush; sounds great:-).
Hey Danimal how goes the battle? Happy Halloween / Canadian Thanks Giving. Best of luck:-).
It would be nice to try it out perhaps?
Well met, the new animations are a good idea and I'd prefer that solution. Yet I am currently unskillful in the needed animation skills to do this properly myself. Also I am not sure who has the talent and the desire to create new animations for both the male and female Flare player character avatar sprites. Even if the animations were made I am sure that itemization optimizations could be found; yet collectively we as a community currently lack the animation set(s) for dual wielding.
I am currently hoping in the near future (with aid from Danimal) to have a stop-gap 'version 1' of dual wielding with ~'sword and board' / one-handed weapon + shield preexisting animations to get the dual wielding system off the ground. Yet I feel that this could be improved if there were dedicated dual wielding animations for Flare. I wish for dual wielding play-style to exist in Flare. Yet what I wonder what options we have to make this desire work and manifest into reality?
I suppose that leaves us with the natural question that arises from that we both agree on new dual wielding animations being valuable for Flare; but now the focus shifts to how to make new animations for Flare? Danimal knows how to make new animations (as evidenced in his work) and I hope that I can learn in the future to help out myself as well. Additionally I feel that the more creative expertise that is shared with the community the better the community becomes and more can be improved upon with Flare :-).
https://www.youtube.com/user/larsandersen23/videos Lars Andersen is a great embodiment of what light bows can do. Also in the Crusades / middle east-ish there was use of light bows, lots of shots, shorter range but against armour they were not very effective but in the heat it is hard to wear armour in some places so its all connected together.
I am going to have to tinker with bows and arrows and ranged weapons although for now I gave a cool down of 2.0 seconds to the ranged Shoot ability to still enable quick snap shooting, prevent immobilization and weird slow attack animation and red debuff text on all ranged weapons while still simulating reload and the general delay of reloading / getting ready to shoot. Also it is possible to run around and reload kinda so it works like that as well. High mobility possible yet still if you want high slaughter than melee is preferred.
Also I had to go a bit drastic on my armour since I had so many types and so little % places to use (only 100; but really ~70-60 effectively). I increased the base movement speed to 7.5 (up from 6) to still be believable but to mainly compensate how I had to resort to forcing my on paper armour system to work in the confines of whole integer % numbers with regards to speed penalties; as extrapolated below (also I wanted this to be mana regeneration but such an itemization attribute did not exist at the time):
"Armour Classification Ratio: (100 / 15 + None Classification)
0.00000 +/-0% Mana Pool +/-0% Movement Speed - None
0.06667 +/-0% Mana Pool +/-0% Movement Speed - Clothing
0.13333 +/-0% Mana Pool -10% Movement Speed - Light Cloth Armour
0.20000 +/-0% Mana Pool -20% Movement Speed - Medium Cloth Armour
0.26667 +/-0% Mana Pool -30% Movement Speed - Heavy Cloth Armour
0.33333 -1% Mana Pool -40% Movement Speed - Light Leather Armour
0.40000 -2% Mana Pool -40% Movement Speed - Medium Leather Armour
0.46667 -3% Mana Pool -40% Movement Speed - Heavy Leather Armour
0.53333 -4% Mana Pool -50% Movement Speed - Light Mail Armour
0.60000 -5% Mana Pool -50% Movement Speed - Medium Mail Armour
0.66667 -6% Mana Pool -50% Movement Speed - Heavy Mail Armour
0.73333 -7% Mana Pool -60% Movement Speed - Light Plate Armour
0.80000 -8% Mana Pool -60% Movement Speed - Medium Plate Armour
0.86667 -9% Mana Pool -60% Movement Speed - Heavy Plate Armour
0.93333 -10% Mana Pool -70% Movement Speed - Massive Plate Armour
1.00000 -11% Mana Pool -70% Movement Speed - Gargantuan Plate Armour
-Matthew Gordon Roulston 12:51 AM 22st / 08 (August) / 2021"
A subsystem of my armour itemization system.
I wish I had fractions of % to use so I can avoid this issue with 10 main armour pieces and only whole number / integers to use per piece of armour of a combined set of 10:
"Light/Medium/Heavy Plate Armour
-60% Movement Speed
10 - 12 Torso -6% Movement Speed
9 - 11 Head -6% Movement Speed
8 - 10 Legs -6% Movement Speed
7 - 9 Hands -6% Movement Speed
6 - 8 Shoulders -6% Movement Speed
5 - 6 Waist -6% Movement Speed
4 - 5 Shins -6% Movement Speed
3 - 4 Feet -6% Movement Speed
2 - 3 Wrists -6% Movement Speed
1 - 2 Arms -6% Movement Speed"
I wish that each armour piece can be more close to my original prototype of having the wrist be less slowing than the torso armour but I am limited by whole numbers / integers regards to itemization. I hope in 1.13 I can use fractions of % such a -2.5% Speed or -0.3% Speed or etc. I did a basic rough implementation of my paper armour system into flare but it feels very crude and kinda making due under limitations of whole numbers. When you have many armour types, many armour pieces, whole numbers of 0-100% run out pretty quick XD.
Also quick melee because of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5w2Mh6CyXo
Also two-handed melee is not that much slower at all really: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xruM1DylSZE Some of these attacks are less than a second apart.
Notice the speed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w8yHeF4KRk that is a warbow (and a crossbow), the warbow is not a practice bow or a light bow but a bow designed specially to kill and win / not lose too badly battles and hopefully wars. Sure light bows can be fast but they lack the power to really do serious damage like a war bow.
True, very true; iterate, iterate, iterate. Ideas are great but everything should be challenged and tested until it breaks to see its strengths and weakens and so that ~'version 2' can be built better via more insight on the errors of the past. Bit by bit, piece by piece :-).
How can ammunition be added in flare is it possible or is it quite clunky? If so is it just one item for say 'arrows'? If ammunition was added I would like it to have the option to have different types (bronze arrows, iron arrows, steel arrows etc.) Also the possibility of magical ammunition such as http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate/ranged.html with say Ice arrows deal extra ~'cold' damage but are limited / more expensive so a player can chose to 'load up' / buff up before a challenging fight to increase their fighting odds. Could this be done with a common ammunition type but it is equip-able like weapons / armour and gives +stats when equipped yet how would you prevent melee / magic / other non-ranged from getting +cold damage when it is only meant for ranged?
Also if expendable ammunition could be made to work the system could lend it self to other weapon types like melee with say flaming oil where every melee attack get extra ~'fire' damage but with limited amounts of attacks / charges. How could this be done? Would each item that adds weapon damage have to be a clone of the base attack ability but with extra related features but with limited stacking uses / 'charges' like kind of like potions and scrolls? Or is there a way to passively add to a select base attack ability (strike, shoot, channel etc.) in a limited use way once an item is equipped? Whereas a player equips say 'Acid Arrows' but there are x87 of them so every shot had added ~'acid' damage but the stack of x87 Acid Arrows is drained by 1 every time / shot? Could there be ~3 quiver slots that are drain in a predictable order such as slot 1, 2 then 3? Could multiple types of 'ammunition' be carried for say Arrows or Bolts and only bows would drain arrows equipped and not the Bolts; even when the bolts are equipped? Could the base ranged shoot ability have infinite arrows (as it currently does)but enhanced arrows are limited?
Could all of this be simplified into abilities and talents and or limited use items (like scrolls and potions) that just grant a buff that is drained with every ranged only or melee only or ranged and melee but not magic etc attacks? Could ~'flaming weapon oil' be made like a potion / scroll but it grants a passive buff to all attacks in dealing extra ~'fire' damage to all attacks but over a limited amount of time across all attacks but on a limited time basis to have it work roughly the same gameplay wise yet to vastly simplify everything mechanically and use existing systems? What kind of mechanic options are there for ammunition / ~'limited expendable weapon power boosters'? - Formal thread for tangent / off-topic question here: https://opengameart.org/forumtopic/expendable-ammunition-limited-use-wea...
I second that notion, does this swamp set exist for the public to enjoy?
Danimal Okay that sounds amazing :-D.
I was wondering how to handling weapon speed so attack speed can vary I take it to have 'fast' and 'slow' weapon speeds that can make different say sword types like a Bastard Sword has ~50% Attack Speed verses a Short Sword that has ~75% Attack Speed but the damage can be averaged to make the same Damage Per Second and make both weapon types roughly equal but lend to different play styles? Or does the fact that weapons just give a straight +damage buff kind of ruin that and that could lead to highest weapon speed = best in slot but just buffing damage in potentially other means outside of weapons or would this be prevented by locking in all damage sources and carefully calculating all possible damage calculations and making sure they all average out in the same 'tier' / item level? Or maybe all melee weapons attack at the same speed and damage is all the same; that would work regardless, less depth but it works.
Also I agree on slowing down the attack speeds in Flare. The melee weapons I hope can have attributes like Diablo where some weapons are fast but weak and some are slow but powerful and yet if the all have the same item level (roughly) the have the same Damage per Second. Although if that cannot be properly replicated I can just have all One-Handed and Two-Handed Melee Weapons attack at the same speeds and use the 150/100/50 damage system.
In general it seems that melee should have more damage potential than ranged weapons for there is more risk to the player and a serious risk of being encircled and exposed to serious damage. Whereas ranged attacks are more safe and can be hit and run and this kind of combat should be lessened. The melee poise of enemies should be in the spirit as you suggested to prevent 'machine gun' melee happening. Also ranged attacks in real life do not have to be very fast and most war bows do not draw quickly and the speed in Flare is a bit crazy; also the infinite ammunition is 'okay' but not perfect. Slower attack speed = less damage over time than melee of equal level / 'tier' would force the player to make a choice to kill faster with greater risk or kill slower but with greater safety. This could even be 50% the attack rate of melee one-handed weapons with 50% the damage as well. Also it is unrealistic to shoot so fast without fatigue and fatigue will slow the average rate of attack lower than a quick burst. This quick burst could be trained ranged ability like ~'Rapid Shots' that is a temporary ranged attack speed increase yet I am unsure how to make it only work for ranged attacks and not melee and magic. Also a damage much lower to melee for ranged attacks makes sense in that if you imagine taking a sword and striking a bare body. A properly placed strike from a sword will rend a huge gash in the body whereas a ranged strike leaves a point of damage. The difference is more so over long range where ranged attacks lose energy over distance; whereas melee does not.
Magic should be powerful but potentially the most clunky to use. It cannot be too weak or else it feels kind of pointless like flashy weak attacks and loses the respect as found in most medieval fantasy settings. If it is too powerful and easy to use it ruins the ranged and melee balance. If it is powerful and offering lots of utility / options of employment of its powers to aid the caster that fits with the usual expectations of medieval fantasy settings. If it is a bit clunky to use like long cast times and or some versions using lots of resources / mana and making only a few select costly casts per minute realistic without digging deep into potions and other outside resources this will force the player to use strategy and cunning and planning to win with magic. Powerful, impactful and rarely un-useful a magic spell could be clunky to use over and over in combat yet quite useful if the caster can make the limited casts per minute count; skill verses spam. Yet wands and the such could be used to be the back bone of a magic user to fill a role between melee and ranged. Where wands and such could act almost as a hybrid ranged / melee role. In that they are longer in area of threat / attack range than melee, yet shorter than ranged, less damage than melee, equal and or even greater in damage to ranged, and perhaps equal or potentially slower in attack speed than ranged for potientially less, equal or even greater damage per minute compare to ranged. Yet less than melee in most all areas except area of threat / attack range. To have a cycle develope of using spells to blast a start / buff up then wand the enemies to keep them at bay while the spells recharge and blast more magic at the foes and keep the cycle going.
This is my current set of views regarding with combat and the weapon type / play style rolls moving forward for my R.P.G. prototype at least :-).
Pages